Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  Sea Breeze

  During the last three hours of Jesus’ death on the cross, an unusual darkness struck the land. This darkness was most definitely a result of God's direct intervention, because it can't have been a solar eclipse for the following two reasons:
  

  
  1. The maximum duration for a total solar eclipse is seven minutes, not three hours, and at the latitude of Jerusalem the maximum duration is even less.
  2. A solar eclipse can occur only at new moon, but we know that Jesus was crucified at the time of Passover (Matthew 26:2; Mark 14:1–2,12; Luke 22:1–2, 7; John 13:1), and that the Passover is at the time of full moon (Exodus 12:1–11; Leviticus 23:5).

  The New Testament records the three-hour darkness during Christ’s crucifixion (Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:44–45).
  
  But it is also confirmed by four other historians outside the Bible: Phlegon, Thallus, Africanus and Tertullian. These historians attempt to interpret the darkness as a direct effect of a solar eclipse which we know is scientifically not possible - but they wouldn't have known that in their time.

  
  

  
  
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  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  Sea Breeze

  Halcon, SBF and other "believers": My goal is to challenge your logic. It was a severe lack of logic somewhere in our families' history that got us involved in Watchtower. In my case, it all got started by my Sicilian immigrant ancestor who only had at most a 3rd or 4th grade education.
  
  Once a person says they believe in God they have an obligation to think properly, logically... the way God thinks. If something is inconsistent in a line of reasoning, that should be a red flag that one or more of the components in a supposition is incorrect, or very likely to be so.

  Atheists have no such moral imperative and so, you all have probably (rightly so) rejected the miracles that Atheists believe in:

  1. Existence comes from non-existence

  2. Order comes from Chaos

  3. Life comes from non-life

  4. Personal comes from the non-personal

  5. Reason comes from non-reason

  6. Morality comes from matter

  That kind of reasoning is easy to reject. Only a very few have damaged enough minds that can believe in that idiocy. But, how can you continue to hold in high regard a man who in your estimation is a liar? Here are your choices:

  1. Jesus was God and resurrected himself from the dead, while he was dead, just like he predicted. If you believe this, you should be able to explain how a dead person can do this. (You all know the answwer but something is preventing you from accepting it) Or,

  2. Jesus wasn't God, but simply a good and wise teacher that falsely claimed that he would raise himself from the dead. This of course makes him a liar and certainly NOT a good and wise teacher.

  This is one of the many problems with the unitarian view. It is not logical, not consistent and certain to be wrong.

  I'm very curious; What is it exactly that prohibits all you unitarians from accepting the biblical definition (as opposed to the atheist definition) of man? Did you ever hold the biblical definition on the tripartite nature of man? Or, have you all always only accepted the atheist definition?
  
  Edited to add: Vienne, I'd like to hear your comment on the last paragraph above.
  
  
  
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  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  Sea Breeze

  @ Touch of Grey

  It's for you to provide the undeniable evidence of a miracle worker called jesus

  That's pretty funny.

  BTTT: Why are the atheists answering for the unitarian believers here? Where is SBF ?

  @ Halcon

  Would it be safe to say then, that God did not exist for three days?

  Of course not. How can God not exist since he is self - existing? Doesn't make any sense. So, do you believe that Jesus lied when he said he would resurrect himself from the dedad, while he was still dead?
• 
  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  Sea Breeze

  Find me any non-biblical source for the un/supernatural events that surrounded the death of Jesus, you’d think somewhere in the world someone would’ve written about an unplanned solar eclipse, zombies or earthquakes.

  @Anonymous

  Why don't you find it? It's all available at your google finger tips - over a hundred non-biblical sources on the life of Jesus covering the very things you list.

  My challenge is not to atheists who claim to not see any evidence, but it is to the few "believers" on this board who claim to believe in a different Jesus than the one presented in scripture.
  
  If Jesus didn't raise himself from the dead (proving he was God), then he is a liar, a con man and the worst sort of deceiver. And, should be utterly rejected.
  
  Heretics can't have their con man and at the same time hold him in high esteem. This is the fundamental logical error with heretics. They want the Jesus they have created, a supposed "good man" one who is a liar and a deceiver.

  Good men don't lie and deceive.
  
  
  
• 
  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  Sea Breeze

  Syd,

  Gandalf is a fictional character. Jesus is historical and there are at least a dozen virtually undisputed facts surrounding his resurection. Old fashioned atheist arguments like the one you present here have lost their pizazz a decade or two ago and don't work anymore.
  
  Besides, my comments are not directed towards atheists. They are directed towards so-called believers who are still bound by Watchtower heresies.

  Funny how atheists feel the need to come to the aid of Unitarian "believers". Heretics are unwilling or unable to defeat my arguments. Makes you wonder what they are getting out of their rebellion? Doesn't make any sense.
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  196

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  I love how Jesus challenges people to think for themselves and form their own conclusions based on the evidence they had available to them, instead of listening solely to their religious manipulators.

  Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.” And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!”

  
  But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” And he arose and departed to his house. - Mt. 5: 2-7

  One can easily imagine Jesus talking to the Unitarians (who have suddenly have gone silent) on this board and asking a similar question:

  Which is easier, to say, "I and the Father are one in the same", or to raise myself from the dead, while I'm still dead"? Then, he arose on the third day and visited his friends and hundreds of others.
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  10

  What are some of the JW Teachings That you do not Agree With

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  casey sabella writes.

  many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.

  they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.

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  Sea Breeze

  

  What have they been victorious in?
  
  * 100 % failure rate in their predictions.

  * They cliam to be the sole channel of communication for God on earth, yet one of their GB leaders misleads a court by stating under oath that it would be presumptous to say something like that. Liars.

  * Dozens of doctrinal flip flops.

  * Their church is the greatest family destruction / suicide machine ever devised.
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  10

  What are some of the JW Teachings That you do not Agree With

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  casey sabella writes.

  many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.

  they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.

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  Sea Breeze

  

  In 1967, Watchtower wrote that "sudden death" was "only a few short years ahead of us" and to come within the generation that had seen both world wars.

  "the danger of sudden death is staring you in the face. ... That is exactly the case with the warning that we speak of here, and there are reasons why it can truly be said to be the most urgent warning ever given. ... It is to come within the generation that has already seen two world wars and it is only a few short years ahead of us." Watchtower 1967 Apr 15 pp.243-244
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  20

  WT June 2025: We Are Not Blind We Just Don't Know

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/7xumqjq3zfc?si=ivcg96t4dtgze4ft.

  so this is from the brand new watchtower study edition of june 2025 which has just been posted on jw.org .under the title: modestly accept what you do not know, a let’s read paragraphs in question 4 &5: “read matthew 24:36. we do not know when the end of this system of things will come.

  even jesus, while on earth, did not know the ‘day and hour.’ he later told the apostles that jehovah, who is the great timekeeper, keeps the timing of certain events ‘in his own jurisdiction,’ or authority.

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  Sea Breeze

  “Because we do not know when the end will come, how might we be affected?

  My answer: Some may feel let down, even manipulated that after predicting Christ's return on several occaasions, church leadership now says they havent got a clue.

  
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  53

  What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  michael moore writes:.

  a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.

  cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.

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  Sea Breeze

  Cults try to make you form a maladaptive relationship with group leadership. It could be any group. Once that happens, the original rationale for the formation of the group to begin with is lost and irrelevant.